Friday, October 07, 2005
My chapter-by-chapter review of CTBHHM
(Although no, I guess it's not really a true "review" - not quite sure what to call it LOL! Basically it's what "spoke" to me - both good and bad - as I read it.)
I have 5 chapters left. But to be quite honest, I am just tired of it. I feel like such a flake for not wanting to finish blogging about it, especially since there ARE good tidbits of info. and some good advice that Mrs. Pearl shares with us! But truly, chapter 23 is what put this book into the "I Cannot Recommend This Book In Any Form or Fashion" category, and I have no idea where to even BEGIN on that chapter! (And I'm sure that anyone who reads this and thinks I just "have it out for the Pearls" or that I'm a feminist or that I'm rebellious and unsubmissive will read all sorts of things into that statement, which is fine...whatever. Most likely those things are SO not true, but why even bother defending myself, KWIM?)
I dunno...I want to finish it, yet I feel like I'd be beating a dead horse. So. I'm going to be praying about whether I need to finish blogging about it. But I wanted to give a heads up (LOL, if there's anyone who has just been chomping at the bit for the next chapter! ;-) ) just in case I don't finish the series.
22 Comments:
i HAVE been wondering...i can't blame you for being burnt out over it, especially with all the hoopla...
you did a great job Keer! thanks for taking it on
So you would say Chapter 23 is the worst? I've been following your reviews...and can honestly say I'd be worried about a woman in the wrong circumstances reading that book, but I can say that about a lot of books similar. People offer advice, and outline specific appropriate and non-appropriate behavioral advice to an audience they can't see.
Well, I've missed you for the past few days. :) Does that count for anything?
I can imagine that with so many chapters in the book, you'd be burnt out. Of course, now I'm curious what chapter 23 is about! But, I guess I can live with that. If I have to. ;)
Thanks for missing me! :-) My parents have been in town this week (haven't seen them in over a year!), so I've been busy with that and with preparing for our new school year, which supposedly starts Tuesday. Yikes!
Chapter 23 discusses when it's OK to disobey your husband.
I wish you would finish! (although I can tell you 100% that if it were me, I would drop it and spend awhile trying to clear any lingering Pearl stuff out of my head)
IMHO, the work could be considered done. Everybody has had a chance to see the flavor of the book, and the concerns about the Pearls' doctrines have been brought to light.
What's more, the lines have been drawn. It no longer really matters what Debi Pearl says later in the book because there are only two kinds of people: those who will take it well because they like/respect the Pearls, and those who take it badly because they don't.
I assume when you started this you had no idea what would happen! Sorry you've been put thru the wringer. Prayers for peace for you, whether you finish the book review or not! ~Amy
Amy,
Oh my goodness no I didn't have any idea what was going to happen when I started blogging about this book! The sole purpose for starting to blog about it was to see if there were others out there like me who had concerns about it. I had heard nothing but good about the book and began an online study with it. As I read I kept thinking, So what is the big deal? And then it turned into some major eyebrow-raising and more of a But Scripture doesn't say that! And of course intermingled with, Yes, that is great advice, and I need to take that to heart. Since I thought I was all alone, I started blogging about it to see if I was just WAY off. WOW I never knew or even imagined what all would stem from it!
Sadly, I think you're right. Lines HAVE been drawn. I don't like that they have, nor do I think they SHOULD have been. I'm not sure why it is this way either, but it's quite distressing.
Hi!
How about just skipping to Chapter 23 and finishing off your review of that Chapter? :-)
Of course, I support you in whatever you feel like doing. You do what is best for you and your family. This is not an easy thing to undertake, especially when there are so many who refuse to separate their like for the Pearls with the need to arrive at Biblical truth. That is the reason for the unwarranted accusations and insinuations.
But, someday your words and the words of others and the example you set will start some balls into motion and many of these people will come to the realization of the importance of sticking to sola scriptura rather than standing behind mere humans who have some serious theological bents.
Or you could always move on to fluffier and less controversial book reviews, like the Pearls' book on sex. :-)
If you choose not to finish it, I'll understand. But, to be honest, I really hope you do. Take another week off, and pray about it. I'll respect your decision either way!
And I've missed ya!
CORRIE!!!!!!!
BWAAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!
Nope, won't be tackling that book. Michael Pearl looks just TOOOOOOOO much like my dad, and that is just not a mental image I want to have in my head!!!
Keer, if it makes you feel better, I've enjoyed reading your posts for the good things you've pointed out (and also pointing out error). I had picked up the book and browsed through it, happened on Chapt. 23 and couldn't bring myself to read the whole thing. You've brought out good things from the book I need to be reminded of without me having to seeth over certain things (and I didn't really have an opinion of the Pearls prior to this since I'd never read their stuff).
If a book makes me churn a lot, my husband can tell, and he always says very gently "Put it down now." I had to do this with a few books. Sometimes, it's just not edifying.
Lydia,
"Unfortunately, many of the reviews have not included this caveat. They have made an effort to be fair-minded, and in one sense they are, but I feel there has been a mistake made as they have not extended grace to the Pearls to minister and speak at the place they are with God."
I'm not sure how much you have read over here, but I have said pretty much the same thing. It was under chapter 15.
"There would have to be some very serious doctrinal error – as in denying Christ’s sacrifice and atoning power – denying that He is the only way to God – for me to make some of the comments that have been made."
Original sin is quite a biggie.
"Keer has said, 'I'm going to be bold here and just flat out say that the Pearls are false teachers, plain and simple.'
"Another review responded, 'Well I have to agree with you - what you say is correct by biblical standards.'"
You left out some pretty important parts of the comments. Catez (the one who responded) continued with, "And we see these doctrines are not new. I prefer to refer to the teaching as it's that which is disseminated."
And I replied with, "Thank you for clarifying my statement, and yes, that's what I meant."
So perhaps I was a bit overboard with the "false teacher" comment - what I MEANT was that they were teaching a false doctrine.
I can't really comment on the other comments you posted since they were at various blogs, nor did I say them.
"Can you truly say, that the doctrine the Pearls teach is enough to disfellowship them?"
I'm not sure about others, but I personally have said nothing about disfellowshipping them.
"Can we not extend them the courtesy and respect due to fellow believers?My heart is truly grieved over these discussions. Yes, let’s discuss theology. Yes, let’s discuss the Pearl’s theology. But let’s do so with grace, kindness, understanding, and Christian love."
And that is exactly what I'm trying to do. I have to admit that I am very frustrated in doing so, because it seems that anything negative I might say about their THEOLOGY gets misconstrued as me saying something negative about THEM. If I question something that they say I am called names or am told that I'm being hateful and ungracious. I'm also frustrated because Mrs. Pearl has been asked questions point blank about statements in her book, and she has yet to reply to the people asking.
Yes, the Pearls' theology concerns me. Is it because of Catez's post? No. It is because of statements I have read from Rebekah Pearl. It is because of statements I have read in their newsletter regarding their theology. It is because of statements made by people who have adopted the Pearls' doctrine as a direct result of listening to the Pearls' teaching tapes.
That's not why I started blogging about this book anyway. I've shared (repeatedly) why I started blogging about it. Learning about their doctrine actually completed a puzzle of sorts, since the doctrine totally fits in with some of the problems I had with the book. So my main goal really isn't to debate their doctrine per se, but since the book involves their doctrine, I can't overlook the doctrine.
Lydia, I'm not exactly sure just what you are wanting me to say. I retracted my "false teacher" statement, but no, I will not retract the "false doctrine".
And YES, you're right, we do need to be careful with our words online. On both sides.
Honestly my concerns about original sin don't stem from their statement of faith. It's from comments like these:
"I think some of the amazement you may feel over the stories or the presentation of the stories and letters probably stems from a belief that we all have a sinful nature and therefore our natural reactions cannot be good." - Rebekah Pearl at http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/devdoordeborah/26344
"A baby is not born sinful or guilty of sin." - a commenter who holds the same doctrine as MP
There are more, but I don't have time right now to comb through all sorts of NGJ archives and such to find the statements.
But really, my concerns about CTBHHM (which is what *I* am focusing on on this blog) involve more than the doctrine, so even if they held the exact same doctrine that I did, I'd STILL have problems with the book. (And no, it's not because I'm rebellious or a Jezebel. ;-) )
And that brings up one of the things that does not get addressed by the people who are following the Pearls. What about how many of them have accused those who disagree with being Jezebels and rebellious? What about those who have accused someone who reviews their book negatively as being slanderous?
Honestly, Paul named those teaching false teachings by name. No one is wrong pointing out the error of the Pearls or negatively reviewing their books. That is what happens when someone writes a book. They will get some positive reviews and some negative ones. That is life. James says not to be many teachers for they will receive the greater judgment.
So now if we speak up about the way they twist scripture, we are unloving? Well, I know I have prayed that I would speak the truth in love, but that does not mean I'm not going to speak the truth. So now we have to be politically correct, right? That is a big problem that has entered the "body of Messiah."
I have been in a "church" that was very similar to the Pearls and it did great damage to my family. They are off on other areas than original sin. I have not seen love come from those that follow them, either, but accusations and name-calling. But then, Debi does that in her book, doesn't she? How is that okay? I can tell you it is a form of manipulation and control and it is working just great from what I can see.
Love and shalom,
Serena
"Can you truly say, that the doctrine the Pearls teach is enough to disfellowship them?"
I'm going to be honest here. I posted a look at some of the Pearl's doctrine. It was not personal about the Pearls, or about anyone else. Since I posted it I have been called slanderous, biased, ungracious, selective, not fair-minded, and strong insinuations have been made that I'm a liar. And that was just one person. Well, two people have stooped that low actually. And that was before they even listened to the Pearl's teaching tapes. Let's get honest here.
Now the arguments are "how can you disfellowship the Pearls?" Good question. How on earth can I disfellowship people I've never met who live thousands of miles away from me? What I can do is to say that there are serious errors in their teaching, and I cannot recommend the teaching to anyone.
As I've said elsewhere in this ongoing discussion, just because I don't accept the teaching doesn't mean I have don't love some-one. It is not wrong to look at their doctrine and hold it to the light of scripture.
Re: all those quoted comments. So Keer said they are false teachers. And I gently steered her comment to something I thought a bit more appropriate which got to what she really meant. So? What has that got to do with people teaching error on essential basic doctrine? All this about "disfellowshipping" is irrelevant. It is not disfellowshipping to let people know there are major problems in a teaching and it is not disfellowshipping to not buy their material - there is plenty of other great Christian teaching available that is not in error on major points.
Let me emphasise:
A PERSON DOESN'T HAVE TO LIKE THE PEARL'S TEACHING OR RECOMMEND IT, OR BE SILENT ABOUT THE ERROR IN IT.
That is not being slanderous or ungracious - it is about what what one believes, what one spends money on as God's steward, and what one recommends to other brothers and sisters. In response to this:
"The doctrine of original sin is possibly a "biggie." I think Michael Pearl’s position has been made to be more than it is. He does believe we are "under the curse." He does not believe that unregenerated man can obey God prior to salvation. I have read the verses that have been quoted."
Lydia, if you did read the comments on other blogs then you'll know that this has been answered. What does MP mean by "the curse"? Not what most Christians think it means. He means physical death - we are physically separated from the tree and can't eat the fruit - so our bodies age and die. He does believe unregenerate man can obey God in some ways but admits they commit sin. He categorically states we are not born with Adam's sin passed on to us and that we do not have a sinful nature.
Eph 2:3 says "We were by nature children of wrath". MP would not agree as his KJV bible is different. However many other translators do agree - and this is one of the problems of the Pearl's KJV-onlyism. As well as that, the bible is clear in other places about our nature and so on. May I suggest yuou do a study or ask your pastor or minister to point you to one?
All of this stuff about a few comments by people on blogs is a red herring from the real and serious issues to my mind. If it was any other teaching material we would critique it, and that would be that. I've reviewed boks and others have reviewed them and been less positive than me - I haven't charged around blogs making a storm over it and saying they are "disfellowshipping" the author or that some-one left a comment on their blog and I didn't like it. People leave comments on blogs. Some comments are better than others. There are more serious issues - such as the doctrinal error in the Pearl's teaching.
It is my assessment that the Pearls are teaching error on basic essential doctrine. I cannot recommend their teaching material to anyone.
The latest thing seems to be that one should be "balanced" talking about their stuff. But "balanced" seems to mean minimising to me - as in minimise the serious error and say "well this bit over here is ok". That's not balance - that's putting things out of balance. Some issues are much bigger than others - they carry more weight. If the weightier matters are flawed then it needs to be pointed out.
Keer,
I understand your reluctance to finish blogging the book. Just ask the Lord - there's no law. If you think he wants you to finish then fine, and if not then as you say, you got to a chapter that showed you that you can't recommend the book anyway. There's no fault in saying that either.
God bless you.
Keer while all are offering their thougts my encouragement would be to pray and follow what God and your husband feel is HIS leading. God will give you strength for the task if that is what HE desires you to do. Trust an obey.
To the others, if there has been anything inappropriate on my blog or in my conduct I would as that you e-mail me and let me know. To the best of my abilities I have sought to honor God with my review an opininions. But I know that we all have blinders and it is sometimes takes others pointing them out for us to see them. Please let me know. You can get the e-mail on my blog. I don't want to get spammed so I'm not leaving it here.
Let us also remember that God calls each of us to examine ourselves and to humbly submit to one another. The Pearls are not different and not above scrutiny. And a public book is subject to scrutiny both in content and doctrine. The first verse of Titus 2 is to teach sound doctrine. That is a qualification for both men and women. Debi Pearl holds all of us to a high standard of conduct as wives. She and her writing are not exempt from examiniation accordingly.
Clearing
You said,
The more I read about this book (which I did read many years ago
You must be confusing this book with Me? Obey Him? because Created to be His Help Meet has only been out for less than a year. So I'm not sure what book you might be referencing or the controvesy surrounding it. But his is a new publication just put out by Debi Pearl.
Spunky
Keer your a nut I left you one way and you come back totally different. I love this look alot.
"I'm sure that's why I didn't remember a lot of it (ahem)"
ROFLOL!!!!!!!
You hoot!!!!!
There are similar in what they teach.(ie. encouraging submission, reverence, etc). And like you, I read Me? Obey Him? over 10 years ago. But the tone of Created to be His Help Meet was alot different. I'll have to go back and look again before I comment too much more.
Hi Keer and anyone who may actually read this. Took a look at my last comment and I can see the part in all caps looks pretty strong. Sorry - I didn't mean it to look like shouting (but it might have to some). I was just tired of some stuff and was trying to be get to what I saw as the issue. So apologies if the all caps offended anyone. Thanks.
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